Believe me, I am not a fan of McCain either, but I am a Republican. I am being forced to make a choice now between the lesser of the two evils, and who will benefit me the most. Truthfully, at my age I have to look at who will be there for me when I retire.

ORIGINAL: The_Michigan_Man

ORIGINAL: TK23Blue

ORIGINAL: mgobob

After watching world news tonight and Glen Beck the other night, all they seem to be bringing up is Obama and his flip flopping, he is now changing positions to get the far right voters. As I said before this guy scares me, he is to wishy-washy to be any kind of a leader.

Yep, standard operating procedure for the Republicans.  Dems are too wishy-washy and they're flip-floppers.  Nice try.  Now, spend some time and do some homework checking McCain's flip-flops.  This guy is all over the map and has changed his views on topics 3 times, sometimes more.  See: Drilling in the US and Enron, for just a few.  As far as being a 'leader' is concerned, I'd prefer it if mine didn't openly admit "I don't really know a lot about the economy" as McCain has.  Obama isn't wishy-washy.  He's standing in the middle of the aisle and is moderate on a lot of issues, the way McCain used to be but not anymore.  The Republicans know they have a nut-job in McCain, which in the past wouldn't be a problem as evident by the fact that we've had one for the past 8 years, but now even they can't seem to muster up the energy to back this guy with their usual gusto.

I find it absolutely comical that someone can't change their mind once they've looked harder at an issue without being a flip-flopper and wishy-washy.  I'll take that over "stay the course even though that course is taking us right down the toilet" mentality of the current guy.  Yep, stay the course boys!  Brilliant.

Now I know you are smart, but you cannot be serious, can you?  Even the most close-minded high schooler knows Obama's Liberal voting record!  I as for the second part, your right, but you cant say its ok for Obama to change his mind while taking a "harder look" at the issues, and say McCain is wishy-washy.  Thats hipocrasy at its finest.  If this is the case, then why come down on McCain, because you know he changed his view after taking a "harder look" at the issues. 

This is why, in my opinion.  Let's take an example, since it's big news right now: Obama's position on Iraq.

He's stated his goal and intent to remove all troops by 16 months after he takes office.  This has been his position for a while.  He was recently asked to guarentee that all troops will be out in 16 months and he didn't.  People jumped on the flip-flop bandwagon.  Obama then scheduled another press conference explaining that he still is completely committed to withdrawing in 16 months, however if unforseen situations arose he would not blindy stick to old goals.  That's common sense.  That's what a leader is supposed to do: set goals and strive to make them, but if they prove to be unatainable or unforseen situations arise, you adjust.

With McCain I still don't know a thing about him.  I watch the news all the time.  I see Obama talking about his stances, policies.  I see right wing nut jobs talking about Obama being a flipflopper, Muslim, anti-patriot, etc, etc.  And I see McCain talk about why he disagrees with Obama and why he's a good candidate (read experience) but I still have no idea what McCain is going to do.  That would be nice to know.
University of Michigan - Class of 2009
It's Great to be a Michigan Wolverine

ORIGINAL: The_Michigan_Man

ORIGINAL: TK23Blue

ORIGINAL: mgobob

After watching world news tonight and Glen Beck the other night, all they seem to be bringing up is Obama and his flip flopping, he is now changing positions to get the far right voters. As I said before this guy scares me, he is to wishy-washy to be any kind of a leader.

Yep, standard operating procedure for the Republicans.  Dems are too wishy-washy and they're flip-floppers.  Nice try.  Now, spend some time and do some homework checking McCain's flip-flops.  This guy is all over the map and has changed his views on topics 3 times, sometimes more.  See: Drilling in the US and Enron, for just a few.  As far as being a 'leader' is concerned, I'd prefer it if mine didn't openly admit "I don't really know a lot about the economy" as McCain has.  Obama isn't wishy-washy.  He's standing in the middle of the aisle and is moderate on a lot of issues, the way McCain used to be but not anymore.  The Republicans know they have a nut-job in McCain, which in the past wouldn't be a problem as evident by the fact that we've had one for the past 8 years, but now even they can't seem to muster up the energy to back this guy with their usual gusto.

I find it absolutely comical that someone can't change their mind once they've looked harder at an issue without being a flip-flopper and wishy-washy.  I'll take that over "stay the course even though that course is taking us right down the toilet" mentality of the current guy.  Yep, stay the course boys!  Brilliant.

Now I know you are smart, but you cannot be serious, can you?  Even the most close-minded high schooler knows Obama's Liberal voting record!  I as for the second part, your right, but you cant say its ok for Obama to change his mind while taking a "harder look" at the issues, and say McCain is wishy-washy.  Thats hipocrasy at its finest.  If this is the case, then why come down on McCain, because you know he changed his view after taking a "harder look" at the issues. 

 
I'm certain even the most "close-minded high schooler" knows Obama's liberal voting record, and I'm also certain you're part of that group.  Unfortunately, the question was what Obama is doing right now to get votes, not what his past record is, hence the question of flip-flop.
 
I also never said it was just ok for Obama to change his mind.  I believe I said "someone".  That would include both Republicans and Democrats.  And thanks for proving the hypocrisy point I was trying to make.  But let's take wishy-washy out of this because, well, it's just too wishy-washy and doesn't always apply.  Here, I'll give you an example: When McCain was a leader and advocate to close the Enron Loophole but has since decided not to and has all but forgotten it, was that due to being wishy-washy, taking a 'harder look at the issues', or the fact that he has Phil Gramm as his economic advisor?  (Hint: It isn't the first 2 choices.)  See that?  McCain isn't always wishy-washy. 
"I have marked down losses for Wisconsin, Michigan State, Penn State, and Ohio State. And then there could be others such as Illinois".-BigHouseFootball March 08

ORIGINAL: TK23Blue

ORIGINAL: The_Michigan_Man

ORIGINAL: TK23Blue

ORIGINAL: mgobob

After watching world news tonight and Glen Beck the other night, all they seem to be bringing up is Obama and his flip flopping, he is now changing positions to get the far right voters. As I said before this guy scares me, he is to wishy-washy to be any kind of a leader.

Yep, standard operating procedure for the Republicans.  Dems are too wishy-washy and they're flip-floppers.  Nice try.  Now, spend some time and do some homework checking McCain's flip-flops.  This guy is all over the map and has changed his views on topics 3 times, sometimes more.  See: Drilling in the US and Enron, for just a few.  As far as being a 'leader' is concerned, I'd prefer it if mine didn't openly admit "I don't really know a lot about the economy" as McCain has.  Obama isn't wishy-washy.  He's standing in the middle of the aisle and is moderate on a lot of issues, the way McCain used to be but not anymore.  The Republicans know they have a nut-job in McCain, which in the past wouldn't be a problem as evident by the fact that we've had one for the past 8 years, but now even they can't seem to muster up the energy to back this guy with their usual gusto.

I find it absolutely comical that someone can't change their mind once they've looked harder at an issue without being a flip-flopper and wishy-washy.  I'll take that over "stay the course even though that course is taking us right down the toilet" mentality of the current guy.  Yep, stay the course boys!  Brilliant.

Now I know you are smart, but you cannot be serious, can you?  Even the most close-minded high schooler knows Obama's Liberal voting record!  I as for the second part, your right, but you cant say its ok for Obama to change his mind while taking a "harder look" at the issues, and say McCain is wishy-washy.  Thats hipocrasy at its finest.  If this is the case, then why come down on McCain, because you know he changed his view after taking a "harder look" at the issues. 

I'm certain even the most "close-minded high schooler" knows Obama's liberal voting record, and I'm also certain you're part of that group.  Unfortunately, the question was what Obama is doing right now to get votes, not what his past record is, hence the question of flip-flop.

I also never said it was just ok for Obama to change his mind.  I believe I said "someone".  That would include both Republicans and Democrats.  And thanks for proving the hypocrisy point I was trying to make.  But let's take wishy-washy out of this because, well, it's just too wishy-washy and doesn't always apply.  Here, I'll give you an example: When McCain was a leader and advocate to close the Enron Loophole but has since decided not to and has all but forgotten it, was that due to being wishy-washy, taking a 'harder look at the issues', or the fact that he has Phil Gramm as his economic advisor?  (Hint: It isn't the first 2 choices.)  See that?  McCain isn't always wishy-washy. 

Thanks for the outright slam against my intelect. It shows how "close minded" YOU truely are.  Please, do not put anyone down on these forums just because someone rebutes your thinking, or your posts.  It shows ignorance on your part, my friend.


And MY point was, if you read it, that if you call one canidate "wishy-washy" then you must call the other.  I never said one wasnt to the other.  Simply making a statement that many on here, as well as the media, call what Obama is doing a "reforming" of what he had previously said.  And though I DO AGREE WITH YOU THATS NOT A BAD IDEA(Imagine that, I agree with you on something! ) PEOPLE IN GENERAL (Not you, notice the NOT part) call Obama's "reforming" a great tool, something a president should do in his policies!  But if John McCain does it, its called "flip-flopping,""Wishy-washy."  I just dont like the double standard here, thats what I am trying to point out.

Sgt. Jon C. Rocha/ USMC

Apples and Oranges.

Obama never changes his stance.  You can't "flip-flop" without changing a stance.  Refining policies and procedures is far from changing stances.  Not saying that he hasn't changed in some things and not saying that McCain has.  But it is possible to distinguish between refining policies and outright changing them.
University of Michigan - Class of 2009
It's Great to be a Michigan Wolverine

ORIGINAL: The_Michigan_Man

ORIGINAL: TK23Blue

ORIGINAL: The_Michigan_Man

ORIGINAL: TK23Blue

ORIGINAL: mgobob

After watching world news tonight and Glen Beck the other night, all they seem to be bringing up is Obama and his flip flopping, he is now changing positions to get the far right voters. As I said before this guy scares me, he is to wishy-washy to be any kind of a leader.

Yep, standard operating procedure for the Republicans.  Dems are too wishy-washy and they're flip-floppers.  Nice try.  Now, spend some time and do some homework checking McCain's flip-flops.  This guy is all over the map and has changed his views on topics 3 times, sometimes more.  See: Drilling in the US and Enron, for just a few.  As far as being a 'leader' is concerned, I'd prefer it if mine didn't openly admit "I don't really know a lot about the economy" as McCain has.  Obama isn't wishy-washy.  He's standing in the middle of the aisle and is moderate on a lot of issues, the way McCain used to be but not anymore.  The Republicans know they have a nut-job in McCain, which in the past wouldn't be a problem as evident by the fact that we've had one for the past 8 years, but now even they can't seem to muster up the energy to back this guy with their usual gusto.

I find it absolutely comical that someone can't change their mind once they've looked harder at an issue without being a flip-flopper and wishy-washy.  I'll take that over "stay the course even though that course is taking us right down the toilet" mentality of the current guy.  Yep, stay the course boys!  Brilliant.

Now I know you are smart, but you cannot be serious, can you?  Even the most close-minded high schooler knows Obama's Liberal voting record!  I as for the second part, your right, but you cant say its ok for Obama to change his mind while taking a "harder look" at the issues, and say McCain is wishy-washy.  Thats hipocrasy at its finest.  If this is the case, then why come down on McCain, because you know he changed his view after taking a "harder look" at the issues. 

I'm certain even the most "close-minded high schooler" knows Obama's liberal voting record, and I'm also certain you're part of that group.  Unfortunately, the question was what Obama is doing right now to get votes, not what his past record is, hence the question of flip-flop.

I also never said it was just ok for Obama to change his mind.  I believe I said "someone".  That would include both Republicans and Democrats.  And thanks for proving the hypocrisy point I was trying to make.  But let's take wishy-washy out of this because, well, it's just too wishy-washy and doesn't always apply.  Here, I'll give you an example: When McCain was a leader and advocate to close the Enron Loophole but has since decided not to and has all but forgotten it, was that due to being wishy-washy, taking a 'harder look at the issues', or the fact that he has Phil Gramm as his economic advisor?  (Hint: It isn't the first 2 choices.)  See that?  McCain isn't always wishy-washy. 

Thanks for the outright slam against my intelect. It shows how "close minded" YOU truely are.  Please, do not put anyone down on these forums just because someone rebutes your thinking, or your posts.  It shows ignorance on your part, my friend.


And MY point was, if you read it, that if you call one canidate "wishy-washy" then you must call the other.  I never said one wasnt to the other.  Simply making a statement that many on here, as well as the media, call what Obama is doing a "reforming" of what he had previously said.  And though I DO AGREE WITH YOU THATS NOT A BAD IDEA(Imagine that, I agree with you on something! ) PEOPLE IN GENERAL (Not you, notice the NOT part) call Obama's "reforming" a great tool, something a president should do in his policies!  But if John McCain does it, its called "flip-flopping,""Wishy-washy."  I just dont like the double standard here, thats what I am trying to point out.

Sgt. Jon C. Rocha/ USMC

 
Actually, I was referring to the fact that you would be part of the group that knows Obama's voting record, not a "high schooler".  That was your word, not mine.  However, your post was completely condescending to begin with-expect to get some in return.    
"I have marked down losses for Wisconsin, Michigan State, Penn State, and Ohio State. And then there could be others such as Illinois".-BigHouseFootball March 08

Here is a real good article in the Freep today from a very smart young women.
 
http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080707/OPINION02/807070307/1068/opinion

ORIGINAL: mgobob

Here is a real good article in the Freep today from a very smart young women.

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080707/OPINION02/807070307/1068/opinion

 
Yes, very smart.  She's voting for McCain because her friends and family are voting for Obama.  I was going to try and find the logic in this but then I remembered: she's a child.  And hey, they're cute at that age aren 't they?
"I have marked down losses for Wisconsin, Michigan State, Penn State, and Ohio State. And then there could be others such as Illinois".-BigHouseFootball March 08

The stupid thing about that article is the last line.  She contradicts her whole argument with it. University of Michigan - Class of 2009
It's Great to be a Michigan Wolverine

Yeah, smart's not the word I would have used, but whatever.  I don't think that changing too drastically from the Bush administration is a large concern, nor something that the rest of the world will get upset with us for.  And universal health care hurting access to doctors is not a problem in many countries, so there goes that argument (not to mention the author seems to have little understanding of how the current insurance system works or is opposed to it because it makes health care too accessible).

Anyone who thinks learning about the candidates is ironic isn't exactly someone whose opinion I take too seriously.  It really seems like her biggest problem with Obama is that he speaks too well.  Yeah, picking the one who couldn't speak as well has worked so well thus far. . . . It's great to be a Michigan Wolverine!

 
Sums up my feelings pretty well right now  
Phil Callihan
Editor-in-Chief
UMGoBlue.COM

 

ORIGINAL: mgobob

 
: Idiot Quote of the Century





Brilliant

"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I
hope you'll join with me as we try to change it."
- Barack Obama

Sorry...don't really get why this is so terrible. There's no doubting that we, the greatest nation in the history of the world, needs some changing.

ORIGINAL: TK23Blue

ORIGINAL: mgobob

Here is a real good article in the Freep today from a very smart young women.

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080707/OPINION02/807070307/1068/opinion

Yes, very smart.  She's voting for McCain because her friends and family are voting for Obama.  I was going to try and find the logic in this but then I remembered: she's a child.  And hey, they're cute at that age aren 't they?

Well, considering most people my age are supporting/voting for Obama, what does that say about him? I am an Obama supporter as well, but I don't think you can just discount someone's views because they are a 'child'.

ORIGINAL: buckeyehater22

ORIGINAL: TK23Blue

ORIGINAL: mgobob

Here is a real good article in the Freep today from a very smart young women.

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080707/OPINION02/807070307/1068/opinion

Yes, very smart.  She's voting for McCain because her friends and family are voting for Obama.  I was going to try and find the logic in this but then I remembered: she's a child.  And hey, they're cute at that age aren 't they?

Well, considering most people my age are supporting/voting for Obama, what does that say about him? I am an Obama supporter as well, but I don't think you can just discount someone's views because they are a 'child'.

 
You're right.  Let me re-state that as this is a bit of a sweeping generalization.  She's acting like a child.
"I have marked down losses for Wisconsin, Michigan State, Penn State, and Ohio State. And then there could be others such as Illinois".-BigHouseFootball March 08

ORIGINAL: mgobob

 

DO NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA!!!!! he has claimed to visit 57 states and has 1 more to go


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws  

Section, I sincerely hope you're being sarcastic...

Isn't this thing really Obama's to lose at this point?  McCain would have been fine 8 years ago, but now?  Please.  It will be interesting to hear the debates, because McCain is really going to make Obama actually say something other than "yes we can" and "Be the Change" (maybe that last one was Ghandi...). 

I am one of those odd voters who are fiscally/economically conservative but socailly liberal.  We'll see where things shake out after the debates...
GO BLUE

http://theonlygamethatmatters.blogspot.com