I heard him say it.
I, personally, me was sitting at a luncheon when His Highness the Cardinal of Urban talked.  I heard him say it with my ears from his mouth, first person, in other words.
He repeated that story many times during his two years in UTAH.
Scouts Honor.l

That story, to me, doesn't take credit as the sole creator of the Spread Option. To me, he's saying that's where they came up with their version they ran at Utah. Just like RR came up with his version at WV that was predicated off what they ran at Clemson and prior. Similarly to what Mora did with Vick before either of those guys had a HC position in the D1 ranks.

If he stated emphatically that he pioneered the Spread Option, then he's a moron. It's that plain and simple.

Like I said, no question he popularized it. No question he had his twist on it at Utah, but the guy didn't invent it in any way shape or form...he put his twist on it and certainly had great success with it, I won't contest that.

And, regardless of what Urban said, your Utah counter-part is factually incorrect that Utah was the first team to run it. That was the main point of my reply.

Those who can do, do; those who can't, go into journalism.

Alright guys, didn't mean to strike a nerve.  I apologize for the misstatement, as obviously other schools ran it prior to Utah.  Urban was running it at BGSU starting in 2001, but I don't have any problem with Rich inventing the spread, if that's how it went down, or with Rich and Urban both developing it or both popularizing it along with the other coaches I mentioned.  I know when Rich was at Tulane they ran a spread offense, but I don't remember any "option", just a mobile QB and a lot of 4WR looks (especially during the 12-0 season).  They also ran a lot of power running, but like I said, I don't remember any "option".  Just like Michael Vick and Jim Mora (or prior to that, Frank Beamer).  No "option" in that offense either.

Now at WVU coach Rich definitely used "option" in his spread, but whether he got that from Urban (who'd been running it publicly for a year) or not is certainly up for debate.  I'm not saying Rich copied Urban, or that he wasn't an offensive innovator.  He was, and remains, an offensive innovator.  The Pat White / Steve Slaton offense looked a lot different from any other spread offense operating last year, including Utah and Florida.  And he certainly throws a wrench into the offense that I'm not aware of other coaches using, in the no-huddle component, which makes his offenses extremely difficult to prepare for but also requires a lot of preparation and football IQ from the QB.

My point, however, remains the same, and that is that we've seen it. 

Also, if you'd made the post with all the facts in it first, instead of "lol"ing me, I think this would have been a little easier.

ORIGINAL: egami

If he stated emphatically that he pioneered the Spread Option, then he's a moron. It's that plain and simple.

Egami,

I've heard Urban mention coach Rich when talking about the "spread offense" which liked to spread the defense but force them to respect an inside running threat and a mobile QB.  In fact, I think he's done that in interviews before.  It's the "option" side of the offense that I think Urban takes credit for, which has been implemented in several other places, including WVU and Northwestern. 

When people say "spread offense" I think they tend to include places like LSU, BYU, etc.  None of those teams run any option, but they do spread the ball around a lot.  Now coach Rich runs a spread option now, but IIRC that's not what he ran at Tulane or Clemson (and I remember the Tulane team pretty well, although not the Clemson team). 

Either way, both coaches are clearly great offensive minds and very very good at their jobs.  If coach Rich has UM's offense running anywhere close to WVU's offense, and with your defense loaded, I don't see many teams beating you, Utah included.

Really I dont get your problem with LOL, this is the internets. You have to understand RichRods our dude now and we will defend him and his ways. The use of invention of the offense can be argued though RR invented the spread option off of the regular option and UM created his optoin off of RRs. They are similar but vastly different at the same time. Anyways Utah will be a good game, it should be a good game at least. I think Michigan will be favored since it is at home. I think you look at RRs records in first years but again he has not inherited teams with a lot of talent either. WVU was not exactly great before he came along. So I look at that and dont really pay too much attention to it.
 
Its pretty obv as others have said the offense in theory should be the weak point of this team the first year. But then again I have fait in RR to alter his offense to his personell. Threet has talent and potential and we are loaded at RB so it should be manageable. I dont think it can be much worse than our past few years have been. And our defense should hopefully be better too. 100% for sure they will be better conditioned. A couple of concerns but no defense is really ever 100% solid at every position. Some get pretty damn close though.
 
I really see Michigan winning this game but wont be surprised if Utah wins. 

ORIGINAL: displacedute

ORIGINAL: egami

If he stated emphatically that he pioneered the Spread Option, then he's a moron. It's that plain and simple.

Egami,

I've heard Urban mention coach Rich when talking about the "spread offense" which liked to spread the defense but force them to respect an inside running threat and a mobile QB.  In fact, I think he's done that in interviews before.  It's the "option" side of the offense that I think Urban takes credit for, which has been implemented in several other places, including WVU and Northwestern. 

When people say "spread offense" I think they tend to include places like LSU, BYU, etc.  None of those teams run any option, but they do spread the ball around a lot.  Now coach Rich runs a spread option now, but IIRC that's not what he ran at Tulane or Clemson (and I remember the Tulane team pretty well, although not the Clemson team). 

Either way, both coaches are clearly great offensive minds and very very good at their jobs.  If coach Rich has UM's offense running anywhere close to WVU's offense, and with your defense loaded, I don't see many teams beating you, Utah included.

Like I said, no doubt Urban put his stamp on the offense and popularized it, I am not going to argue that he wasn't one of the pioneers of the modernized, popularized Spread Option. And, yes, I am fully aware of the distinction between the Spread and the Spread Option.

Again, the point was merely to emphasize that Utah wasn't the first team doing it. Granted the phrase wasn't hardly coined, but what VT did with Vick under Beamer that Mora was attracted to do with Vick in the NFL was, in its elementary form, Spread Option.

Yes, Urban has his twists, RR has his twists and even different yet...take Texas Tech and Mike Leach and his wide splits on his o-line and what he's been doing since 2000 with the Spread. No question every coach has their stamp.

Lloyd Carr/DeBord's stamp was an offense that would lull one team to sleep...the problem is, sometime that team was his own....

Those who can do, do; those who can't, go into journalism.

ORIGINAL: egami

Like I said, no doubt Urban put his stamp on the offense and popularized it, I am not going to argue that he wasn't one of the pioneers of the modernized, popularized Spread Option. And, yes, I am fully aware of the distinction between the Spread and the Spread Option.

Again, the point was merely to emphasize that Utah wasn't the first team doing it. Granted the phrase wasn't hardly coined, but what VT did with Vick under Beamer that Mora was attracted to do with Vick in the NFL was, in its elementary form, Spread Option.

Yes, Urban has his twists, RR has his twists and even different yet...take Texas Tech and Mike Leach and his wide splits on his o-line and what he's been doing since 2000 with the Spread. No question every coach has their stamp.

Lloyd Carr/DeBord's stamp was an offense that would lull one team to sleep...the problem is, sometime that team was his own....

 
OK, maybe I should just shut up because I can't really remember watching a lot of the Beamer and Vick show, but wasn't that mostly just Vick scrambling to throw?  I mean I don't really remember a lot of the inside stuff that Urban uses or much of the receiver reverses.  I just remember Vick running around and defenses being forced to locate him and that would open up the passing lanes.
 
With Urban, the ground game from the backfield was pound it up the middle.  The option was a lot of inside handoffs and QB decision on which hole to hit.  The kicker or wild card was all the reverses and fake reverse inside passes.
 
Anyway, the passing game that RichRod used at WVU looked a lot like the UTAH offense in '04, but not so much the ground attack.
 
Regardless, UTAH no longer uses that offense, in it's pure form, but has seen it from Meyer from the defensive perspective.

ORIGINAL: wolverine318

Really I dont get your problem with LOL, this is the internets. 

Yeah, it's just when it's made offhand to dismiss another person that it bugs me.  I would have just preferred it if egami had put down his thoughts, since all of the posts after the first one have been really good and informative and well-thought-out.

That and I am kind of a grammar nazi.  It's a character flaw, and I'm working on it.

As for your coach, you're right in that I should have expected a defense of Rich.  I still think of him as the WVU coach, so I wasn't expecting it, but he's YOUR coach now and I completely understand and respect you and egami's decision to defend him.  I'd probably have reacted in a similar manner, without the "lol". 

And I feel the same way you do about the game.  I wouldn't be surprised if it goes either way.  Part of playing Michigan is that you know you're going to be facing superior talent, and part of playing coach Rich is you know you're going to be facing an excellent coach.  Hopefully he just hasn't been able to get his excellent talent ready yet because of the transition and we can steal one, but it'll be very difficult.

ORIGINAL: Chad Sexington

ORIGINAL: egami

Like I said, no doubt Urban put his stamp on the offense and popularized it, I am not going to argue that he wasn't one of the pioneers of the modernized, popularized Spread Option. And, yes, I am fully aware of the distinction between the Spread and the Spread Option.

Again, the point was merely to emphasize that Utah wasn't the first team doing it. Granted the phrase wasn't hardly coined, but what VT did with Vick under Beamer that Mora was attracted to do with Vick in the NFL was, in its elementary form, Spread Option.

Yes, Urban has his twists, RR has his twists and even different yet...take Texas Tech and Mike Leach and his wide splits on his o-line and what he's been doing since 2000 with the Spread. No question every coach has their stamp.

Lloyd Carr/DeBord's stamp was an offense that would lull one team to sleep...the problem is, sometime that team was his own....

OK, maybe I should just shut up because I can't really remember watching a lot of the Beamer and Vick show, but wasn't that mostly just Vick scrambling to throw?  I mean I don't really remember a lot of the inside stuff that Urban uses or much of the receiver reverses.  I just remember Vick running around and defenses being forced to locate him and that would open up the passing lanes.

With Urban, the ground game from the backfield was pound it up the middle.  The option was a lot of inside handoffs and QB decision on which hole to hit.  The kicker or wild card was all the reverses and fake reverse inside passes.

Anyway, the passing game that RichRod used at WVU looked a lot like the UTAH offense in '04, but not so much the ground attack.

Regardless, UTAH no longer uses that offense, in it's pure form, but has seen it from Meyer from the defensive perspective.

I am not bored enough to go back and watch enough VT tape to discern, but there is some merit to your claim. I think there were visions of a passing QB in Vick, but I think those tended to dissipate as time went on and they implemented more of that approach.

All I am saying is...people talk about D1 this, D1 that and all credit gets established there, but the fact is when I played ball in lowly D3 in the mid to late 90's we saw run first, option offenses on almost half our schedule.

Look at what Mike Leach is doing in Texas with the wide split o-line...been done already in D2 and D3. Some of these trends actually trickle up the scale because the higher you get the more conservative and safe coaches tend to be.

I think the main thing Urban, Rodriguez and others did was have the balls to take it to D1 more than anything...

Those who can do, do; those who can't, go into journalism.

ORIGINAL: displacedute

ORIGINAL: wolverine318

Really I dont get your problem with LOL, this is the internets. 

Yeah, it's just when it's made offhand to dismiss another person that it bugs me.  I would have just preferred it if egami had put down his thoughts, since all of the posts after the first one have been really good and informative and well-thought-out.

That and I am kind of a grammar nazi.  It's a character flaw, and I'm working on it.

As for your coach, you're right in that I should have expected a defense of Rich.  I still think of him as the WVU coach, so I wasn't expecting it, but he's YOUR coach now and I completely understand and respect you and egami's decision to defend him.  I'd probably have reacted in a similar manner, without the "lol". 

And I feel the same way you do about the game.  I wouldn't be surprised if it goes either way.  Part of playing Michigan is that you know you're going to be facing superior talent, and part of playing coach Rich is you know you're going to be facing an excellent coach.  Hopefully he just hasn't been able to get his excellent talent ready yet because of the transition and we can steal one, but it'll be very difficult.

In fairness, you called me a 14-year-old girl. Bastard, hurt my inner being. :p

Those who can do, do; those who can't, go into journalism.

ORIGINAL: egami

In fairness, you called me a 14-year-old girl. Bastard, hurt my inner being. :p

True, and I apologize.  Still, you "lol"'d me first, and as I mentioned, I hate that.  Call it even? 

Rich Rodriguez is the founding father of the spread offense. this is a fact.

meyer just jumped on the bandwagon and picked it up along the way.

on the darkest of days the sun still shines. 

ORIGINAL: displacedute

ORIGINAL: egami

In fairness, you called me a 14-year-old girl. Bastard, hurt my inner being. :p

True, and I apologize.  Still, you "lol"'d me first, and as I mentioned, I hate that.  Call it even? 

lol, liek no!

Those who can do, do; those who can't, go into journalism.

ORIGINAL: section43row50

Rich Rodriguez is the founding father of the spread offense. this is a fact.

Not to nitpick, but RR is founding father of the Spread Option. The spread has been around plenty longer than RR has been running it.

Ok, I called out Utah fan, so I'll play the flip side fairly...

RR nor Urban Meyer are the "founders" of the Spread Option. We've discussed most of this already, but this door swings both directions. Look at the timing of their coaching careers in D1. Meyer started running Spread Option with BGSU pretty much the same time RR started implementing it at WVU. Honestly, both coaches pretty much "popularized" it at the D1 level and were successful with it and are pioneers in that regard, but these types of offenses were running in the lower ranks of college football in 1990's...just because the phrase wasn't coined, or wasn't wide spread, doesn't mean it didn't exist.

Those who can do, do; those who can't, go into journalism.

I saw this on another board
 

FYI, Utah has had two DTs from their two deep
Reply

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leave the team over the last 2 weeks. Isley Filagia, who was a projected starter at Nose and Zeke Wiley, who played some last year. They are very inexperienced and thin at DT.

 
 

 

ORIGINAL: YtownBlue

I saw this on another board

Utah has had two DTs leave the team over the last 2 weeks. Isley Filagia, who was a projected starter at Nose and Zeke Wiley, who played some last year. They are very inexperienced and thin at DT.

That's true, to some extent.  Filiaga was in the projected 2-deep but was not projected as the starter.  And we are thin at DT, which is why we signed three of them.  I just hope they're ready to play.  We signed some very good kids (Kruger, Siliaga, and Kaufusi).  Kruger is a 4*, Kaufusi is ready to play right now.  I hope Siliaga has been working hard this offseason, because he needs to lose some fat and add some muscle if he wants to see the field this year.


Either way, we were going to be weak at DT.  We have a couple of players who have really stepped up, but it's certainly a question mark (the biggest one, IMO) right now.

What D do you guys typically run?

Those who can do, do; those who can't, go into journalism.

4-3

That's what I was guessing...hopefully you find a pair to plug that gap. It seems like there is less issue plugging in young players on the D line versus the O line, generally, so you'll probably survive that ok.

Those who can do, do; those who can't, go into journalism.