So mlive currently has a story up claiming the state legislature is closing in on banning smoking in all public places starting in April, 2009. 

What do people think about this?  I think it has all the potential for a classic umgoblue.com political discussion

It was put in place in Ohio, and it is GREAT! I love not going into sports bars and resturants and not being surrounded by smoke. It makes the eating experience better, and probably improves the health of the employees and fellow customers alike. It may be bad for the resturants, but too bad. I love it. 

It's been smoke free since I moved to CA 8 years ago. I love it! It was a small factor in my decision to leave AZ, which wasn't smoke free then, but is now. I'm interested to hear opinions from people in colder weather climates though. It's easy to go outside hear year-round! "Life's about sustaining, rebounding, responding. The breaks are the breaks. Deal with 'em."
Mike Tomlin

I find it difficult to comprehend that people still smoke today. 
 
In theory I'm not sure I would support an all-out smoking ban in public places as a smoker has just as much right to a public space as anyone, but in reality it wouldn't need to be banned if smokers realized how invasive is their habit to non-smokers and confined their smoking to isolated areas.  Unfortunately, if you look at how it's been legislated, smokers always seem to push the envelope.  Even now with the AZ law that smokers must be 20 ft from the entrance of buildings to smoke, most stand right at 240 inches and in non-smokers' paths to the building.  How does that really minimize the non-smokers' annoyance?
 
I guess it really depends on what is meant by "public place" in this instance, but no one has a right to smoke.
 
As an aside, I dipped for several years, but decided to give it up one day.  I did so cold turkey with little trouble.  I believe nicotine is habit-forming for most and addictive for few.  In short, not quiting b/c you are powerless over your addiction is a cop-out; most simply don't have the will-power.  Maybe that is powerlessness, or maybe it's just an excuse.  To me 'addiction' conotes a physical compulsion, whereas most don't give it up b/c they don't want to or it's too hard.  If you still essentially burn money by turning it into cigarettes and smoking them, you are either a contrarian or not very bright.
"I'm your basic bad-postured, guilt-ridden ball of confusion with a trace of paranoia, self-loathing, and a little faith thrown in for some good taste."
-Richard Lewis

Im not a smoker and I think its the dumbest thing ever lol!!!!  Nothing like the goverment coming in and telling private business how they should run.. If its a restaurant like a Applebbess where kids are at, I understand..
 But not a 21 and over bar..If a bar is to smoking for you, you dont have to go in, go find a non smoking bar.. It should be up to the person who owns the bar if he wants it smoke free or not....
 
 

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We've had it here in GA for a few years now and it is nice to be able to sit at any table in the resturant instead of waiting for a seat to open in the non-smokings section.  I don't have a problem with smokers (my family did for years, but quit), but I always get nervy when the government steps in with rules and regulations.  A useful government action?  Who knew that it would happen, not me    Now it is time to get rid of some of the useless ones, like the income tax (www.fairtax.org). Michigan National Championships 1901, 1902, 1903, 1904, 1918, 1923, 1932, 1933, 1947, 1948, 1997

20-14-1 ND
57-41-6 OSU
67-24-3 MSU

Exactly, I don't mind that theirs a no smoking ban in place (OH), i just hate Gov't regulation of anything. I really don't care about people smoking either way, but i'm very anti-establishment so it makes me lean towards letting smokers do whatever until someone speaks up around them. Holdin it down in the Stinkhole down south.

ORIGINAL: Harbaugh04

Im not a smoker and I think its the dumbest thing ever lol!!!!  Nothing like the goverment coming in and telling private business how they should run.. If its a restaurant like a Applebbess where kids are at, I understand..
But not a 21 and over bar..If a bar is to smoking for you, you dont have to go in, go find a non smoking bar.. It should be up to the person who owns the bar if he wants it smoke free or not....

A barowner would be committing suicide if he made his bar smoke free. The problem is, whether a barowner would like it or not, he/she would lose so much sale because all the smokers will go elsewhere. If the government steps in and says no more, then the barowner will make his place more healthy and less irritating without losing business -- even though a lot of smokers just don't go out to resturants anymore because they can't smoke. I know some places around here in Toledo have seperate porches outside of the building to smoke.

ORIGINAL: buckeyehater22

ORIGINAL: Harbaugh04

Im not a smoker and I think its the dumbest thing ever lol!!!!  Nothing like the goverment coming in and telling private business how they should run.. If its a restaurant like a Applebbess where kids are at, I understand..
But not a 21 and over bar..If a bar is to smoking for you, you dont have to go in, go find a non smoking bar.. It should be up to the person who owns the bar if he wants it smoke free or not....

A barowner would be committing suicide if he made his bar smoke free. The problem is, whether a barowner would like it or not, he/she would lose so much sale because all the smokers will go elsewhere. If the government steps in and says no more, then the barowner will make his place more healthy and less irritating without losing business -- even though a lot of smokers just don't go out to resturants anymore because they can't smoke. I know some places around here in Toledo have seperate porches outside of the building to smoke.

You damn skippy on that one! Eventually, all public places (at least the buildings) will be smoke free. There is absolutely no way around it as all Federal places are and it will trickle down to everywhere else. Do I care, hell no, I just don't go to places that are horribly smokey (ironic for a Fireman). Your lungs, do what u wan't with them.

The resturaunts/bars will be literally destroyed when they eventually ban even the outside patio smokin. I have noticed many places round here that have added patios so they can "skirt" the rules, but many places just cannot add on as they either can't get a permit or lack space. Most of the affluent suburbs round Memphis have banned all bar smoking as well as the patio, they even crank out citations, they actually have cop wannabes that go around looking full-time

Fortunately, in "Memphrica", they dont give a rats ass, yet, actually the city don't give a rats ass about just about anything except making the town darker and more corrupt. SO.. smokers rejoice, u can smoke it up, but you better bring your preferred handgun, yes its that bad

I live in Ohio and there's a local bar that doesn't abide by the law. Not sure how they get around it (I think its cause that's where most cops hang out), but I really don't care. Working at a restraraunt, it was a great law. I used to have to take extra time cleaning those things out every single time they got used and I wasn't even a server (I was a busser). Not good for your job especially when you don't smoke.

ORIGINAL: buckeyehater22

It was put in place in Ohio, and it is GREAT! I love not going into sports bars and resturants and not being surrounded by smoke. It makes the eating experience better, and probably improves the health of the employees and fellow customers alike. It may be bad for the resturants, but too bad. I love it. 

i was at Platinums 2 nights ago in Toledo and no one stopped me from smoking (or anyone else that was in there) i thought it was a little strange though when i asked for an ash tray, they lady gave me a plastic cup with water in it.


and im not happy about this. the ban in canada is the whole reason why i stopped going to casino windsor.


smokers have no rights anymore.

smokers have no rights anymore.

 
Maybe Vegas is behind all of this?
 
I remember going back to AZ a few years ago, and before the law was state-wide, Tempe went smoke free. It really changed the night life scene on Mill Ave. I never saw data, but I have a feeling Scottsdale and downtown Phx really benefited from it.
"Life's about sustaining, rebounding, responding. The breaks are the breaks. Deal with 'em."
Mike Tomlin

ORIGINAL: buckeyehater22

ORIGINAL: Harbaugh04

Im not a smoker and I think its the dumbest thing ever lol!!!!  Nothing like the goverment coming in and telling private business how they should run.. If its a restaurant like a Applebbess where kids are at, I understand..
But not a 21 and over bar..If a bar is to smoking for you, you dont have to go in, go find a non smoking bar.. It should be up to the person who owns the bar if he wants it smoke free or not....

A barowner would be committing suicide if he made his bar smoke free. The problem is, whether a barowner would like it or not, he/she would lose so much sale because all the smokers will go elsewhere. If the government steps in and says no more, then the barowner will make his place more healthy and less irritating without losing business 

 
If everyone is for smoke free  why would a smoke free bar lose business? Wouldnt it do better lol?
Eveyone is against smoking now a days right lol? Who wants to go to a unhealthy place ?
Oh buckeyehater, what bars you going to lol? You must have a great fake I.D  :P
 
 
If the goverment is so worried about peoples health why not just ban smoking all together?
Oh thats right, they will lose out of all that $$tax$$$ money lol

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Another step in the direction of Socialism. I'm an ex-smoker and I think banning smolkng in ALL business is crap. People have been going to bars knowing there's smoke in the air and they CHOOSE to go anyway. Now the government is trying to give a group of complainers more rights than others. Actually, it's restricting peoples FREEDOM OF CHOICE. The government has got to stop dictating. Business owners should be able to run their business, not the Socialists. Just what Michigan needs is for more busisness closures. Trust me, if a smoker can't smoke when they're drinking they will be home instead of poring money into businesses. Let the people think for themselves.  reality is so unreal

ORIGINAL: ohowihate Ohio State

Another step in the direction of Socialism. I'm an ex-smoker and I think banning smolkng in ALL business is crap. People have been going to bars knowing there's smoke in the air and they CHOOSE to go anyway. Now the government is trying to give a group of complainers more rights than others. Actually, it's restricting peoples FREEDOM OF CHOICE. The government has got to stop dictating. Business owners should be able to run their business, not the Socialists. Just what Michigan needs is for more busisness closures. Trust me, if a smoker can't smoke when they're drinking they will be home instead of poring money into businesses. Let the people think for themselves. 

 
Your right on ohowihate OhioSate 
I understand 100% if its a restaurant cause of the kids, but not the neighbor bar at the corner... You have to be 21 to get in right? Smoking is still legal right?  
If a place is to smokey , then dont go in.. Problem Solved !

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Trust me, if a smoker can't smoke when they're drinking they will be home instead of poring money into businesses.

 
Rather than trust you, I'd like to just look at the data. Several states have had this ban for a long time. I know NY and NJ are smoke free, with similar climate; what do the numbers say? When I was on the East Coast for X Mas, I couldn't find an empty bar. There may have been more people there though, because many were outside (patio or entry way), bundled up, puffing, while others were inside getting their booze on.
 
I understand what you're saying about the gov. interfering, but I'd like to see proof that bar owners are going to suffer, and smokers are staying home.
"Life's about sustaining, rebounding, responding. The breaks are the breaks. Deal with 'em."
Mike Tomlin

Nicotine is far more addicitive than it is habit forming. It's more addictive than heroin, alcohol or cocaine so to say it's just a bad habit that can be easily broken isn't exactly accurate.  I mean, I had the bad habit of leaving the top off the toothpaste but now I don't.  Not quite the same thing.
 
I live in CA so the no smoking in public places doesn't bother me and I don't go to bars anyway.  But when we have a city like Calabasas that has banned outdoor smoking PERIOD (with the exception of a few scattered outdoor smoking areas that you can't find anyway) it becomes way over the top and just more bulls*** from the government.  There are now discussions in the works to ban outdoor smoking everywhere, including your own backyard or patio.  Sorry-you're going to have to kiss my a$$ on that one if you think you're going to stop me from smoking a cigar in MY backyard.  Just one more example of a government that wants to do everything BUT it's job.  Listen, I can totally respect a non-smokers desire for clean air.  That's completely fair.  I could never imagine lighting up in a restaurant while a guy is sitting next to me trying to eat, or on an airplane (remember those days?), or in someone's house or car.  It's flat-out rude to begin with, nevermind what we know about 2nd hand smoke, etc.  I would just never consider it so I get why non-smokers can't deal with it.  Can't blame them.  But if you're going to start telling me I can't do something in my own home or backyard, go to hell.  Ain't happening.  I went to a Red Wings-Ducks game this year in Anaheim and there's a restaurant/bar across the street from The Honda Center that we like to frequent.  They allow outdoor smoking on their large patio and the place is packed.  My buddy and I are sitting at a table with 4 chairs so a lady and her friend come up and sit down at our table (there were no seats open anywhere.)  I looked at my buddy and we were a bit stunned-um, how about asking if anyone is sitting here?  She then asks my buddy if he would mind smoking somewhere else.  I looked at her and was ready to say. "Are you serious?" but my buddy jumps up and yells, "Who the F are you?  This is MY table!  Get the hell outta here!"  They stormed off and acted like we were totally rude.  This is where I have a problem with this stuff.  Unreal. 
"I have marked down losses for Wisconsin, Michigan State, Penn State, and Ohio State. And then there could be others such as Illinois".-BigHouseFootball March 08

ORIGINAL: TK23Blue

Nicotine is far more addicitive than it is habit forming. It's more addictive than heroin, alcohol or cocaine so to say it's just a bad habit that can be easily broken isn't exactly accurate.  I mean, I had the bad habit of leaving the top off the toothpaste but now I don't.  Not quite the same thing.

Pleeeeease...do you have any facts to back up that contention?  More addictive than heroin?  Has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.  Ans, son, if I tell your step-dad that you are logging into his UMGoBlue account he is going to tan your behind.
 
 
"I'm your basic bad-postured, guilt-ridden ball of confusion with a trace of paranoia, self-loathing, and a little faith thrown in for some good taste."
-Richard Lewis

ORIGINAL: zjgm02

ORIGINAL: TK23Blue

Nicotine is far more addicitive than it is habit forming. It's more addictive than heroin, alcohol or cocaine so to say it's just a bad habit that can be easily broken isn't exactly accurate.  I mean, I had the bad habit of leaving the top off the toothpaste but now I don't.  Not quite the same thing.

Pleeeeease...do you have any facts to back up that contention?  More addictive than heroin?  Has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.  Ans, son, if I tell your step-dad that you are logging into his UMGoBlue account he is going to tan your behind.

 
Facts?  How many do you want?  Here, I'll let you do it and I'll even help you.  Go to Google and punch in 'Is nicotine more addicitive than heroin'.  You'll find 10,000 articles, from some pretty reasonable sources like, Johns-Hopkins, Georgetown University and the list is a mile long.  Do your own homework son-I'm tired.
"I have marked down losses for Wisconsin, Michigan State, Penn State, and Ohio State. And then there could be others such as Illinois".-BigHouseFootball March 08

ORIGINAL: TK23Blue

Facts?  How many do you want?  Here, I'll let you do it and I'll even help you.  Go to Google and punch in 'Is nicotine more addicitive than heroin'.  You'll find 10,000 articles, from some pretty reasonable sources like, Johns-Hopkins, Georgetown University and the list is a mile long.  Do your own homework son-I'm tired.

Come on, you can do better than that.  A google of that term actually yielded 647,000 results, the first few pages of which trumpeted the claim uncritically at face value.  I did read some of Henningfield's study.  Unfortunately, he administered nicotine through an IV, which while it may prove the physiological effects of nicotine and even support the "addictive" claim is not really relevant to the smoking of cigarettes, at least not until packs of butts start coming with needles.  When I claim nicotine is not addictive for most, I obviously mean in the form of cigarettes or dip.  Most of the results were for anti-smoking websites, which are hardly objective.

Perhaps the study really proves what it sets out to prove and my issues are purely semantic, but it would make a lot more sense to me if Henningfield had administered each drug the way in which it is administered by the user.

Before you jump to any conclusions, I am far from an apologist for the tobacco industry.  I am just tired of seeing junk science used to support political agenda.     "I'm your basic bad-postured, guilt-ridden ball of confusion with a trace of paranoia, self-loathing, and a little faith thrown in for some good taste."
-Richard Lewis