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 Obama vs. McCain - it's official
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Tom Wears Maize

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RE: Obama vs. McCain - it's official - Monday, June 23, 2008 6:33 PM
And again, that has nothing to do with Obama or his stances on issues.  This is getting really tiresome.  You've easily lost all credibility in regards to the election.
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zjgm02

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RE: Obama vs. McCain - it's official - Monday, June 23, 2008 7:58 PM


ORIGINAL: mgobob

 More good reasons to vote Democrat.
I have always heard about this democracy countdown. It is interesting to see it in print. God help us, not that we deserve it.

 
How Long Do We Have?

 
About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:

 
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government."

 
"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."

 
">From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

 
"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years"

 
"During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:

 
1. from bondage to spiritual faith;

 
2. from spiritual faith to great courage;

 
3. from courage to liberty;

 
4. from liberty to abundance;

 
5. from abundance to complacency;

 
6. from complacency to apathy;

 
7. from apathy to dependence;

 
8. from dependence back into bondage"

 
Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul,  Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000  Presidential election:

 
Number of States won by: Democrats: 19 Republicans: 29

 
Square miles of land won by: Democrats: 580,000 Republicans: 2,427,000

 
Population of counties won by: Democrats: 127 million Republicans: 143 million

 
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Democrats: 13.2 Republicans: 2.1

 
Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Republican won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country. Democrat territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..." Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

 
If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders called illegal's and they vote, then we can say goodbye to the  USA in fewer than five years.

 


If only this were bigger...
   Free TK   
wangler to carter

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RE: Obama vs. McCain - it's official - Monday, June 23, 2008 8:04 PM
I'm for Obama.

Let's Go Blue!!
ZooWolverine

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RE: Obama vs. McCain - it's official - Tuesday, June 24, 2008 12:47 AM

ORIGINAL: mgobob




Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul,  Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000  Presidential election:

 



Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Republican won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country. Democrat territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..." Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.


Yeah, most Republican farmers decline farm subsidies.  And Bush must have been the president who balanced the budget, right?  Funny little thing, despite the "government-owned tenements" there, cities like New York City send far more money to the federal government than they receive from it.

Another funny little thing.  There is no Hemline University.  There is a Hamline University (note the 'a') that even has a Joseph Olson.  Tough break, though: Prof. Olson's website says he never authored the text you just attributed to him.  Check out his website: http://www.hamline.edu/law/professors/joseph_olson.html


ORIGINAL: TK23Blue
11.) I Am Stronger On Foreign Affairs - LIAR, except for Africa (surprise) and the Middle East (bigger surprise), you have never been anywhere else on the planet and thus have NO experience with our closest allies.


Umm...what allies are you referring to?  The 20 or 30 we no longer have thanks to W or the 2 we have left?  Oh, I forgot.  These are just tidbits.


I love that claim in particular since the previous one talks about Obama having lived in Indonesia (which is actually true, though not surprisingly the "liar" part of the line is not) and then comments that he's never been "anywhere else on the planet" besides Africa and the Middle East.  Too bad Indonesia is in Asia.  As long as whoever wrote this is going to completely make up all 50 points, you wouldn't think it would be that hard to keep them consistent with one another.
<message edited by ZooWolverine on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 1:12 AM>
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TK23Blue

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RE: Obama vs. McCain - it's official - Tuesday, June 24, 2008 10:08 AM

ORIGINAL: ZooWolverine


ORIGINAL: mgobob





Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul,  Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000  Presidential election:

 




Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Republican won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country. Democrat territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..." Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.




Another funny little thing.  There is no Hemline University.  There is a Hamline University (note the 'a') that even has a Joseph Olson.  Tough break, though: Prof. Olson's website says he never authored the text you just attributed to him.  Check out his website: http://www.hamline.edu/law/professors/joseph_olson.html



 
Ah yes.  Good to see that the Republican Rhetoric Machine is in full swing once again.  Of course, facts are never part of the equation and quoting some obscure passage from an even more obscure blob..er..blog from the never never land called the Internet is standard operating procedure.  Unfortunately, zero effort is put into originality or creativity, since the underlying theme is always the same: YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!  In this case, it says "How long do we have?" and "say goodbye to the USA in fewer than 5 years".  The problem is, this has already been used before.  There was a little guy with a little black mustache in Germany not so long ago that perfected this.  This is just a cheap knock-off of an already tired theme.  The only problem is there are just enough semi-intelligent people in America that may (finally!) out-weigh the incompetent idiots that would actually read this and believe it and they're done listening to bulls*** like this.  But hey, keep rolling it out.  Some of it is bound to stick. 
 
Ok, I need to get back to building my bunker in my backyard.  What?  You didn't hear?  Malta has a nuclear bomb and plans on using it.  No, seriously.  I just read that on the Internet. I'm not taking any chances so run!  Run!
 
 
"I have marked down losses for Wisconsin, Michigan State, Penn State, and Ohio State. And then there could be others such as Illinois".-BigHouseFootball March 08
TK23Blue

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RE: Obama vs. McCain - it's official - Tuesday, June 24, 2008 10:55 AM
Just a quick splash of reality for a second.  Here's the latest approval rating for Curious George:
 
WASHINGTON DC (CNN) -- A new poll suggests that President Bush is the most unpopular president in modern American history.
A CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey released Thursday indicates that 71 percent of the American public disapprove of how Bush is handling his job as president.
"No president has ever had a higher disapproval rating in any CNN or Gallup Poll; in fact, this is the first time that any president's disapproval rating has cracked the 70 percent mark," said Keating Holland, CNN's polling director.
"Bush's approval rating, which stands at 28 percent in our new poll, remains better than the all-time lows set by Harry Truman and Richard Nixon [22 percent and 24 percent, respectively], but even those two presidents never got a disapproval rating in the 70s," Holland said. "The previous all-time record in CNN or Gallup polling was set by Truman, 67 percent disapproval in January 1952."
While Gallup polling goes back to the 1930s, it wasn't until the Truman years that they began surveying monthly approval ratings.
CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider adds, "He is more unpopular than Richard Nixon was just before he resigned from the presidency in August 1974."
President Nixon's disapproval rating in August 1974 stood at 66 percent
The poll also indicates that support for the war in Iraq has never been lower. Thirty percent of those questioned favored the war, while 68 percent opposed it.
"Americans are growing more pessimistic about the war," Holland said. "In January, nearly half believed that things were going well for the U.S. in Iraq; now that figure has dropped to 39 percent."
The numbers on the Iraq war come on the five-year anniversary of Bush's "Mission Accomplished" moment on board the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln, when he proclaimed that "major combat operations in Iraq have ended."
The record-low support for the war in a CNN poll could be one reason behind the president's unpopularity, but it probably is not the only one.
"Support for the war, the assessment of the economy and approval of Mr. Bush are all about the same -- bad," Schneider said.
 
A recent HNN survey (History News Network-George Mason University) polled 109 historians, including Pultizer and Bancroft Prize winners, and asked them to rate Bush's presidency as failure or success.  98% voted failure, (big shocker, I know) with 61% ranking him the worst in the history of the United States.
 
Vote For Mini-Me..Umm..John McCain.  Because You Deserve More Of The Same.
 
 
 
"I have marked down losses for Wisconsin, Michigan State, Penn State, and Ohio State. And then there could be others such as Illinois".-BigHouseFootball March 08
mgobob

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RE: Obama vs. McCain - it's official - Tuesday, June 24, 2008 6:21 PM
Tom wears Maize, relax and take a deep breath. Don't take me to serious.
I am just trying to rattle your cage and start some controversy and I guess I have really pushed some buttons!
You gotta admit it's been fun.
<message edited by mgobob on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 6:22 PM>
GoBlue4Life

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RE: Obama vs. McCain - it's official - Tuesday, June 24, 2008 11:38 PM
McCain has my vote
 
Tom Wears Maize

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RE: Obama vs. McCain - it's official - Wednesday, June 25, 2008 12:13 PM

ORIGINAL: mgobob

Tom wears Maize, relax and take a deep breath. Don't take me to serious.
I am just trying to rattle your cage and start some controversy and I guess I have really pushed some buttons!
You gotta admit it's been fun.


Not really.  How am I not supposed to take you serious, you've said nothing to make me think you aren't serious?  Spewing lies, even if it is a joke, still furthers those lies and rumors. 
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DownInFront417

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RE: Obama vs. McCain - it's official - Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:15 PM
Obama sent me a 4 page letter today hitting me up for money (im not kidding) anyone else get one? if i get a chance i will scan it
on the darkest of days the sun still shines. 
Tom Wears Maize

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RE: Obama vs. McCain - it's official - Friday, June 27, 2008 1:19 PM

ORIGINAL: section43row50

Obama sent me a 4 page letter today hitting me up for money (im not kidding) anyone else get one? if i get a chance i will scan it


Are you on a mailing list or something?
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Scott Duncan

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RE: Obama vs. McCain - it's official - Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:17 PM

ORIGINAL: TK23Blue

Just a quick splash of reality for a second.  Here's the latest approval rating for Curious George:

WASHINGTON DC (CNN) -- A new poll suggests that President Bush is the most unpopular president in modern American history.
A CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey released Thursday indicates that 71 percent of the American public disapprove of how Bush is handling his job as president.
"No president has ever had a higher disapproval rating in any CNN or Gallup Poll; in fact, this is the first time that any president's disapproval rating has cracked the 70 percent mark," said Keating Holland, CNN's polling director.
"Bush's approval rating, which stands at 28 percent in our new poll, remains better than the all-time lows set by Harry Truman and Richard Nixon [22 percent and 24 percent, respectively], but even those two presidents never got a disapproval rating in the 70s," Holland said. "The previous all-time record in CNN or Gallup polling was set by Truman, 67 percent disapproval in January 1952."
While Gallup polling goes back to the 1930s, it wasn't until the Truman years that they began surveying monthly approval ratings.
CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider adds, "He is more unpopular than Richard Nixon was just before he resigned from the presidency in August 1974."
President Nixon's disapproval rating in August 1974 stood at 66 percent
The poll also indicates that support for the war in Iraq has never been lower. Thirty percent of those questioned favored the war, while 68 percent opposed it.
"Americans are growing more pessimistic about the war," Holland said. "In January, nearly half believed that things were going well for the U.S. in Iraq; now that figure has dropped to 39 percent."
The numbers on the Iraq war come on the five-year anniversary of Bush's "Mission Accomplished" moment on board the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln, when he proclaimed that "major combat operations in Iraq have ended."
The record-low support for the war in a CNN poll could be one reason behind the president's unpopularity, but it probably is not the only one.
"Support for the war, the assessment of the economy and approval of Mr. Bush are all about the same -- bad," Schneider said.

A recent HNN survey (History News Network-George Mason University) polled 109 historians, including Pultizer and Bancroft Prize winners, and asked them to rate Bush's presidency as failure or success.  98% voted failure, (big shocker, I know) with 61% ranking him the worst in the history of the United States.
 
Vote For Mini-Me..Umm..John McCain.  Because You Deserve More Of The Same.
 

 
TK, I'm not a GWB apologist or a Republican, but are you really blaming the President for all that ails the USA?  Doesn't our Congress (with a Democrat majority) get any credit?  You failed to mention that the approval rating of said Congress is at 18.5%, below that of GWB.
 
Harry Truman?  That's pretty lofty company, IMO CPT Harry S. Truman was the most underrated President of the past century.
 
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Bucki78

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RE: Obama vs. McCain - it's official - Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:41 PM

ORIGINAL: Scott Duncan
You failed to mention that the approval rating of said Congress is at 18.5%, below that of GWB.


Everyone points out that Congress has a lower approval rating than W but no one goes on to point out that Congress's approval rating would go through the roof if they grew a spine and stood up to the President.  In 2006 the Dems ran on bringing home the troops and restoring congressional oversight on an executive branch that had be out of control for 6 years.  They have done neither.  Instead of governing and leading the country in a time of need, the Dems have been content to use W as a political pinata.

While there is no way I can vote for Bush's 3rd term, I wish I could say that Obama becoming president is a big step in the right direction but I can't. 
TK23Blue

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RE: Obama vs. McCain - it's official - Monday, June 30, 2008 11:40 AM

ORIGINAL: Scott Duncan


ORIGINAL: TK23Blue

Just a quick splash of reality for a second.  Here's the latest approval rating for Curious George:

WASHINGTON DC (CNN) -- A new poll suggests that President Bush is the most unpopular president in modern American history.
A CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey released Thursday indicates that 71 percent of the American public disapprove of how Bush is handling his job as president.
"No president has ever had a higher disapproval rating in any CNN or Gallup Poll; in fact, this is the first time that any president's disapproval rating has cracked the 70 percent mark," said Keating Holland, CNN's polling director.
"Bush's approval rating, which stands at 28 percent in our new poll, remains better than the all-time lows set by Harry Truman and Richard Nixon [22 percent and 24 percent, respectively], but even those two presidents never got a disapproval rating in the 70s," Holland said. "The previous all-time record in CNN or Gallup polling was set by Truman, 67 percent disapproval in January 1952."
While Gallup polling goes back to the 1930s, it wasn't until the Truman years that they began surveying monthly approval ratings.
CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider adds, "He is more unpopular than Richard Nixon was just before he resigned from the presidency in August 1974."
President Nixon's disapproval rating in August 1974 stood at 66 percent
The poll also indicates that support for the war in Iraq has never been lower. Thirty percent of those questioned favored the war, while 68 percent opposed it.
"Americans are growing more pessimistic about the war," Holland said. "In January, nearly half believed that things were going well for the U.S. in Iraq; now that figure has dropped to 39 percent."
The numbers on the Iraq war come on the five-year anniversary of Bush's "Mission Accomplished" moment on board the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln, when he proclaimed that "major combat operations in Iraq have ended."
The record-low support for the war in a CNN poll could be one reason behind the president's unpopularity, but it probably is not the only one.
"Support for the war, the assessment of the economy and approval of Mr. Bush are all about the same -- bad," Schneider said.

A recent HNN survey (History News Network-George Mason University) polled 109 historians, including Pultizer and Bancroft Prize winners, and asked them to rate Bush's presidency as failure or success.  98% voted failure, (big shocker, I know) with 61% ranking him the worst in the history of the United States.

Vote For Mini-Me..Umm..John McCain.  Because You Deserve More Of The Same.



TK, I'm not a GWB apologist or a Republican, but are you really blaming the President for all that ails the USA?  Doesn't our Congress (with a Democrat majority) get any credit?  You failed to mention that the approval rating of said Congress is at 18.5%, below that of GWB.

Harry Truman?  That's pretty lofty company, IMO CPT Harry S. Truman was the most underrated President of the past century.


 
I agree SD-plenty of blame to go around and Congress needs to take theirs.  I don't blame Bush for ALL that ails the USA and really, we need to get beyond pointing fingers and take our country back.  It's ours-not theirs.
 
Let's face it, the economy has to be the biggest issue for McCain and Obama right now and the democratic congress didn't put us in this position.  Of course, it doesn't help when McCain says to all that 'I have to admit, I don't really don't know a lot about the economy' and then picks Phil Gramm as his economic advisor.  The caretaker and champion of the infamous Enron Loophole (convenient that his wife was on the board of directors at Enron) and lobbyist for the mortgage industry, two of the biggest economic disasters in our lifetime.  The oil speculators have been allowed to run rough-shod and unregulated, driving up oil prices and breaking that econmic necessity called supply & demand.  We're looking at paying 7.00 a gallon at the pump this time next year, while the 'corpocracy' that truly runs this country gets sick-rich off of every one of us.  When companies like Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs suddenly become some of the biggest "energy" companies in the world, there's a problem.  But instead of dealing with that, we want to a) open up drilling in the US and b) push harder for alternative fuels.  While both may be worth while endeavors, neither treats the cause.  We can drill every hole possible in the US and it'll just be a band-aid, mostly due to the fact that the oil prices are set by the international market and not the national market.  Alternative fuels are great but how long before the speculators jump into those markets, creating the same problem we're facing now?
 
The point to this ramble is simple: While we spend our time arguing as Democrats vs Republicans, the corporations are allowed to run amock and keep sticking it to us while our leaders look the other way.  Whether it's Clinton, Bush, Obama, McCain, it doesn't matter.  Clinton signed the Enron 'Loophole' so he doesn't get to escape blame either, and Bush has looked the other way while the Enron's of the world made off with our gold.  It's time to stop fighting as a democrat or a republican and time to become an American.  We need to band together to question our leaders and stand up and let them know we're not taking this sh** anymore.  But no.  We just want to argue with each other.  And don't 'they' just love that?
 
 
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mgobob

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RE: Obama vs. McCain - it's official - Thursday, July 03, 2008 6:44 PM
After watching world news tonight and Glen Beck the other night, all they seem to be bringing up is Obama and his flip flopping, he is now changing positions to get the far right voters. As I said before this guy scares me, he is to wishy-washy to be any kind of a leader.
umich1

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RE: Obama vs. McCain - it's official - Thursday, July 03, 2008 11:48 PM

ORIGINAL: mgobob

After watching world news tonight and Glen Beck the other night, all they seem to be bringing up is Obama and his flip flopping, he is now changing positions to get the far right voters. As I said before this guy scares me, he is to wishy-washy to be any kind of a leader.


I am sure Obama would love to have a flip-flopping discussion with John McCain, who has changed his views on pretty much everything since the 2000 election and commonly votes against Republican party wishes on issues that are of core concern to the Republican party.

BTW, this is completely unrelated to your post, but Glen Beck and Lou Dobbs both piss me off.  The constantly act like they know everything, like they can simplify any complex issue and be like....duh....we should be doing this.  I really can't stand either of them, despite the fact that I have found myself having similar political viewpoints on many occasions.
TK23Blue

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RE: Obama vs. McCain - it's official - Friday, July 04, 2008 11:28 AM

ORIGINAL: mgobob

After watching world news tonight and Glen Beck the other night, all they seem to be bringing up is Obama and his flip flopping, he is now changing positions to get the far right voters. As I said before this guy scares me, he is to wishy-washy to be any kind of a leader.

 
Yep, standard operating procedure for the Republicans.  Dems are too wishy-washy and they're flip-floppers.  Nice try.  Now, spend some time and do some homework checking McCain's flip-flops.  This guy is all over the map and has changed his views on topics 3 times, sometimes more.  See: Drilling in the US and Enron, for just a few.  As far as being a 'leader' is concerned, I'd prefer it if mine didn't openly admit "I don't really know a lot about the economy" as McCain has.  Obama isn't wishy-washy.  He's standing in the middle of the aisle and is moderate on a lot of issues, the way McCain used to be but not anymore.  The Republicans know they have a nut-job in McCain, which in the past wouldn't be a problem as evident by the fact that we've had one for the past 8 years, but now even they can't seem to muster up the energy to back this guy with their usual gusto.
 
I find it absolutely comical that someone can't change their mind once they've looked harder at an issue without being a flip-flopper and wishy-washy.  I'll take that over "stay the course even though that course is taking us right down the toilet" mentality of the current guy.  Yep, stay the course boys!  Brilliant.
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